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View Full Version : Upgrade suggestion - Kaby or Coffe Lake



Kiri
27.09.2017, 15:45
Hello,

I am planning an upgrade. I am thinking of an unlocked i5 CPU.
What do you suggest?
Should I buy a i5-7600K now? Or wait for Coffee Lake i5-8600K to hit to hit the market? Any chance that prices for Kaby Lake will drop?

On a similar page, a similar question regarding the GPU. I am going for Nvidia. Should I buy last year's Pascal, or wait the upcoming Volta?

epigramx
27.09.2017, 17:48
The 8600K will be a significant evolution to what Intel does. 6 full cores will be practically much faster than the current 4c/8t of the i7s. If you won't go for the 6c/12t I'd say at least wait for Coffee Lake if you can.

PS. It won't be a significant difference for Cemu specifically, but who runs only Cemu?

octra
28.09.2017, 14:30
What HW are you on right now?
Coffee Lake will require a shiny new Z370 Mobo, and as far as I know there will be no (cheap) B350. So this has also come into account.

Also considered to buy your stuff used?
I'm on a second hand OCed 7350K for 90€ and get a hell of performance in Cemu.

Kiri
28.09.2017, 20:45
I have a crappy AMD FX-6300, overclocked as much as air cooling can afford. So, yeah. The plan is a new CPU-Mobo-RAM combo. I'll be thinking of the Coffee Lake i3 option as well.

octra
28.09.2017, 21:12
In your shoes I probably would want to get the Coffee Lake. At least wait until first reviews and decide then.
Ryzen R5 1600 is not an option I suppose because of the lower IPC performance?

epigramx
29.09.2017, 05:16
The IPC isn't bad, it's mainly that the clocks are low too, that alone is 20% lower performance.

Xalphenos
29.09.2017, 07:44
Yeah ryzen IPC isn't bad. It should be pretty comparable to a haswell clock for clock. If you can get the premium ram it needs and oc it to 4ghz it's certainly not a bad processor.

Still if you are eyeing ryzen I would probably wait for a second revision. AMD tends to have better second revisions. Phenom vs phenom II, bulldozer vs piledriver.

Kiri
29.09.2017, 08:29
I have nothing against AMD. At the time, the FX was the perfect choice. And yes, Ryzen is very tempting indeed. But, usually, I'm alternating platforms. And now it's Intel time, and I think is good to skip the first generation of the AMD architecture anyway.
Thank for the tips. I'll be hunting offers this autumn.

werpu
13.11.2017, 11:50
I have to break a leg for AMD here.

I have upgraded to a Ryzen 1700 2 weeks ago and I now play BOTW in 4k with a very similar performance
as my son plays it on the Wii-I in full hd (pretty much more or less the same framerates once I installed all
needed performance hacks and capped the performance to 30fps because i got 60-120fps in the shrines sometimes
with the game being way to fast)

However with AMD you really have to be ram sensitive and clockspeed sensitive since CEMU uses 2 threads max atm.

So my setup basically is a Ryzen 1700 oced to 3.7 GHz with 16 Gigs DDR 3200 ram. To help out with that an NVidia 1070 does the graphics part.
The problem was, the orginal Ryzen 1700 hat 3GHz and that was exactly the 20% missing to get a good fluid experience. The overworld mostly was 24fps while the towns hit close to 20-22fps.
Better than my old Core i5 3570 setup but still not close enough to the console performance.

Now by ocing the performance basically went linearily up post 3.2Ghz with the overworld giving me a solid 29-30fps and the towns also to some degree and where not normally the WII-U also fails to deliver
a solid 30fps. And yes 4k also might play a role, I have to test in full hd how much it affects the performance. It is probably also the graphics card which is at its limits in 4k, since none of the processor
cores even remotely hit 100% so full hd with standard clockspeeds might be fine - not tested yet.

So if you go the AMD route either go with a fewer core Ryzen like the 1600 which has 3.6GHz per default or go with OCing like I did or go for the higher ones like the Ryzen 1800 which are performancewise
in the same ballpark as my oced Ryzen 1700.
Also Ram is important, on Ryzen a fast ram can give you an additional 10% performance - not sure how this affects the cemu performance.

Probably if you just want to do emu stuff, the Ryzen 1600 is probably the sweet spot. It is cheap with a higher single core performance (3.2-3.6 for a single core turbo) than the 1700 but less cores, but still enough to be future proof.
The problem with going with a pure 1700 is, that you might be lucky and get a good oc performance (like I did) then you are in a similar league as the Ryzen 1800(X) or the core i7 7700 but if not then you simply lost the silicone lottery and you have to live with lower frequencies (probably still higher than what AMD sells them)

epigramx
13.11.2017, 16:12
If they have a choice they should probably avoid Ryzen to begin with and go with any latest Intel that can be overclocked since it will usually be about 1GHz higher with a slightly better IPC on top. By the way, Cemu uses at least 2 logical cores to the fullest, it also does some other asynchronous operations and drivers may also do moderate usage for it so one should aim for at least 3 full cores being available (and again, Cache size also matters though in the case of those Ryzens it's usually the same for an odd reason).

werpu
13.11.2017, 17:35
If they have a choice they should probably avoid Ryzen to begin with and go with any latest Intel that can be overclocked since it will usually be about 1GHz higher with a slightly better IPC on top. By the way, Cemu uses at least 2 logical cores to the fullest, it also does some other asynchronous operations and drivers may also do moderate usage for it so one should aim for at least 3 full cores being available (and again, Cache size also matters though in the case of those Ryzens it's usually the same for an odd reason).

I would not necessarily say that you should avoid Ryzen alltogether. It really depends, if you only do gaming with the machine and price does not matter then definitely go for Coffee Lake.
If you have a mixed workload with video encoding etc... then Ryzen is more than a fine choice. The speed difference between Ryzen and Coffee Lake in the single core performance
is mostly visible if you game beyound 120fps in 1080p if you need 120 fps+ then also go with Coffee Lake.

But Ryzen definitely is a fine choice. If I had to choose between Kaby Lake and Ryzen or if prices matters I probably would go with Ryzen. The new AMD processor line is definitely not that bad not even in single core performance as early tests made it be. The reason back then was that Ryzen is very memory sensitive and slow memory back then was used. The single core performance can be upped 10-20% simply by using fast ram.
Additionally to that the Windows 10 scheduler had problems which have been resolved now, which switched the cores into a deep sleep mode constantly.
Add to that that there are hidden costs with Intel, if you switch processors you always have to buy a new board and you either have to drag your old fan with you or you have to buy a new one because the
boxed fan is something straight for the landfill. The current Ryzen Line will fit into todays boards until 2020.

I personally think that for most people the Ryzen line would be a fine upgrade and I would not necessarily say that the processor line is that bad for emulation software.


175

Just to give an indication what a Ryzen in the 3.7 ghz range can do even with only a handful of cores used.
(Note I have a 30fps cap enabled because the shrines otherwise would be unplayable)

Kiri
17.11.2017, 17:27
I just waited long enough already. I bought a Ryzen 5 1600 at a very decent price. Thanks, everyone, for the advice!

werpu
17.11.2017, 17:31
I just waited long enough already. I bought a Ryzen 5 1600 at a very decent price. Thanks, everyone, for the advice!

Have fun with your Ryzen. You might get a very good performance out of the standard settings, if not ocing it to 3.7GHz definitely gives a console like
performance on botw with afew hacks installed.
But I think the Ryzen 1600 should do it without ocing, since it has a boost performance pof 3.6 GHz and Cemu does not use to many cores.

The ocing should be doable with a stock cooler.