Close

Results 1 to 8 of 8

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    New user
    Join Date
    16.10.2018
    Posts
    1

    Ryzen 7 2700x performance on CEMU compared to i7 8700k

    Hello,

    What is the performance difference on CEMU (with games such as BOTW or Wind Waker) between a Ryzen 7 2700x vs an i7 8700k? I know the i7 8700k performs better, but I would like to get a rough idea of how much better, for example percentage-wise with respect to frame rate.

    I am building a new system that will be primarily used for gaming (modern games, older games, and emulation), and I am trying to decide between the Ryzen 7 2700x and the i7 8700k (or the upcoming 9th gen refresh). I will be pairing it with a 1080 ti. The displays are a 3440x1440 @120 Hz monitor and a 4k TV.

    I would greatly appreciate your feedback and related personal experiences!

  2. #2
    New user
    Join Date
    13.11.2017
    Posts
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by da04lo View Post
    Hello,

    What is the performance difference on CEMU (with games such as BOTW or Wind Waker) between a Ryzen 7 2700x vs an i7 8700k? I know the i7 8700k performs better, but I would like to get a rough idea of how much better, for example percentage-wise with respect to frame rate.

    I am building a new system that will be primarily used for gaming (modern games, older games, and emulation), and I am trying to decide between the Ryzen 7 2700x and the i7 8700k (or the upcoming 9th gen refresh). I will be pairing it with a 1080 ti. The displays are a 3440x1440 @120 Hz monitor and a 4k TV.

    I would greatly appreciate your feedback and related personal experiences!

    Well with the latest cemu I get 54fps in the most demanding scene (Hateno) in Botw in 4k. If I drop lower down to 1080p I am getting constant 60fps.
    The original wii-u drops down to 24fps in that scene in 720p so go figure.
    As for windWaker, you run it in 60fps no matter what scene. Botw. is the most demanding Wii-U game.
    I guess the 8700k might push you towards a constant 60fps in 4k if your graphics card can pull it off.

    Just some proof here

    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8...2018-11-03.png

    and here my system while running it

    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-h...2018-11-03.png

    Thats 4k enabled.

    The 1.14c cemu really is a huge improvement, as long as you have an nvidia card.

  3. #3
    Well, I just posted a video about this.
    I have CEMU running on 2 computers

    One is an intel 4690k at 3.8 ghz

    The other is a threadripper 1900 at 4 ghz.

    Both are using relatively new ATI graphics gaming class cards. So performance of the cpu is whatís being considered here.....

    many users will attest to the fact that CEMU is built for nvidia and that ATIís ďcrummy OpenGL stack is oftne wrongly blamed for poor CEMU performance(I donít believe this one bit as I get excellent performance on every other OpenGL program/game I run) I believe CEMU is not optimized for anything AMD.... hence the discussion/thread I started.

    Itís very easy to see CEMU is optimized for intel only and AMD was the poor stepchild as far as cpu.... my threadripper system is 200 mhz faster, has a higher instructions per clock than the 4690k and has faster ram(ddr4) and the better gfx card(although Iíve run the slower one on the threadripper and saw no difference)
    Not only is the intel system smoother with far less hiccups, the frame rate is overall more than 2x what the threadripper gets..... even though the threadripper is clearly the faster cpu in every benchmark and game(except CEMU)

  4. #4
    New user
    Join Date
    13.11.2017
    Posts
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedracer View Post
    Well, I just posted a video about this.
    I have CEMU running on 2 computers

    One is an intel 4690k at 3.8 ghz

    The other is a threadripper 1900 at 4 ghz.

    Both are using relatively new ATI graphics gaming class cards. So performance of the cpu is whatís being considered here.....

    many users will attest to the fact that CEMU is built for nvidia and that ATIís ďcrummy OpenGL stack is oftne wrongly blamed for poor CEMU performance(I donít believe this one bit as I get excellent performance on every other OpenGL program/game I run) I believe CEMU is not optimized for anything AMD.... hence the discussion/thread I started.

    Itís very easy to see CEMU is optimized for intel only and AMD was the poor stepchild as far as cpu.... my threadripper system is 200 mhz faster, has a higher instructions per clock than the 4690k and has faster ram(ddr4) and the better gfx card(although Iíve run the slower one on the threadripper and saw no difference)
    Not only is the intel system smoother with far less hiccups, the frame rate is overall more than 2x what the threadripper gets..... even though the threadripper is clearly the faster cpu in every benchmark and game(except CEMU)


    Actually there are several mistakes
    a) Using an AMD graphic card, Cemu favors heavily NVidia because it still uses OpenGL and the AMD Windows OpenGL drivers simply are awful, speedwise. So no matter what you do, if you are in Windows, you are definitely GPU bound here, and lose about 50% of the performance if not more. That situation will be rectified once CEMU moves to Vulcan or someone will bring out an OpenGL -> Vulcan library for Windows for AMD cards. Dont expect AMD to fix that, they wont put any more work on OpenGL which is a legacy lib by now. There are several cross platform libs which might become the solutioh in the long run, in development.


    Secondly using a Threaddripper...Threadripper is a brutally fast HEDT CPU but not really in its single core performance and also you have the first gen threadrippers which in itself are slower than the second gen and the Ryzens 2xxx, do get more out of it, use Game Mode which disables half the cores and lets the cores bump up a a little bit so then you will hit Ryzen 1800 areas. Third since you use a first gen Ryzen better set your energy profile to Ryzen optimized instead of optimized. Then how fast is your ram. Especially the first gen Ryzens get 20% more speed by simply driving the Ram frequency up to its real limits. (Ryzens are very sensitive in the first gen to ram frequency due to the nature of the Infinity Fabric which ties everything together even the intra cores). This is sort of like throwing a 16 Core Xeon at a low core problem an then complaining that am I5 gives better single core performance :-)


    Third did you do all necessary optimizations (Install fps++, cemuhook, triple core recompiler, nail down the threads to a single die to avoid intra die connection, this is especially vital on Threadripper?)

    I have posted screenshots of my setup (Ryzen 2700x with an NVidia 2080 and you can see that I am close to 60fps in the most demanding area in 4k), but I have done all needed steps to get the performance up (Cemuhook fps++ and triple core recompiler). I am close to the 8700k perf here, but I guess due to the nature of the 8700k which favors low threaded emulation an 8700k would probably bump me from 54fps to 60fps in this area. Not too much of a difference though anymore. I am talking about stock performances here with optimized Ram. If you start to decap the 8700k and start to OC it, then the difference of course becomes bigger for single core and low core scenarii.

    In RPCs3 the difference is bigger, because that Emulator uses an Intel only command which is deemed unsafe by Intel by now, but pushes up multithreading performance for some games big time (by adding some cache transaction mechanisms)

    Btw. I forgot, event the AMD opengl drivers could be faster at Intel here... because AMDs opengl drivers do not have that many multithreaded optimizations as NVidias (the nvidia drivers have some threaded optimzations internally which AMD does not have)
    So just saying that Cemu favors Intel is not really true, there are so many variables in the game with the biggest one in my opinion is running a threadripper probably in an unoptimized scenario and running both on an AMD card.
    Try Linux here if you havent to get the AMD card equation out of the game. The Linux OpenGL drivers are way better and way better optimized.
    Last edited by werpu; 05.11.2018 at 09:25.

  5. #5
    First off, this is my system built for gaming.

    Itís using 3200 ddr4 ram and yes itís properly ďoverclockedĒ in the bios as such. So I can assure the ram isnít an issue.
    My threadripper cpu is 3.8 ghz stock, but as it is water cooled, I have all cores overclocked to 4 ghz and the power profile is already running on ďamd optimizedĒ I have benched this quite extensively and and attest I have my system running very well.(it outperforms most 1900x systems I see listed in 3D mark.)

    As I stated both copies of CEMU are updated and optimized(which means they are running cemuhook/FPS++ and yes Iím running triple core compile(on both) and as it is running very smooth on the ďslowerĒ intel system, I can assure you I have it configured properly.

    Nailing down the threads to certain cores changes nothing.... which it shouldnít. The 1900x is already a chip with half the cores disabled... and AMD disables the cores that would share resources. Even if I was using a 1950 and the cores were sharing the same infinity fabric resources.... this effects performance by around 3%.... not by 100%.

    While you clam nvidia has ďmultithreaded optimizationsĒ in reality itís just OpenGL extension that allow for more texture calls.... OpenGL cannot me truly multithreaded by how it is designed. Personally, I have several games (mostly older) that run in OpenGL, and comparisons with my brothers 1080 card, the performance In every game Iíve played in OpenGL is on par with nvidia. Iíve yet to see an OpenGL game play at 1/2 the speed as CEMU does just because Iím using an amd card.

    And as for linux, since linux mint 18, the computer can hardly get to the desktop with most newer ati/amd cards. AMD stopped updating the repository drivers and you have to install the kernel drivers from their site which is a pain. As far as game performance, itís plain sad... and most times donít render properly(especially with the open source drivers) so no.... Iíve never got to the point where I got CEMU installed and working on Linux because professionally programmed games work poorly and are hard enough to get ďworkingĒ without serious rendering issues.... Iíd hate to see what CEMU would have looked like.

    The only way to game on Linux in my opinion is to pass the gfx through to a windows vm... which I have done and actually works much better, but then Iím just gaming on windows and Iím back to square one.

    In the end, your telling me to change things that impact performance by a few % points(aside from having cemuhook and FPS++ installed... again which I do)
    And my argument here wasnít to argue why amd gfx cards perform so poor next to nvidia cards on CEMU....

    My point was I have devils canyon intel 4690k cpu... whoís single core performance is LOWER than the single core performance of the stock 1900x threadripper(all benchmarks show this to be fact). And even then, itís only a few % points behind the newer intel cpuís....

    Why is the intel cpu seeing framerates more than 2x the speed of the threadripper?

    Why do amd cpuís Seem to perform ok when paired with nvidia cards?

  6. #6
    New user
    Join Date
    13.11.2017
    Posts
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedracer View Post
    First off, this is my system built for gaming.

    Why is the intel cpu seeing framerates more than 2x the speed of the threadripper?

    Why do amd cpu’s Seem to perform ok when paired with nvidia cards?
    Ok now that I know the details of your configuration, I am very puzzled myself here.

    The Cemu people seem to touch the something in the drivers which drags the performance down. People reported way better performance on the opensource AMD drivers in Cemu in Linux than on Windows on the Rxxx cards. So some people using CEMU even reverted towards Linux for playing.

    One thing it is definitely not the CPU code maybe the combination of CPU and GPU (which might point to a timing issue in the AMD drivers), as you stated and as my screenshots proof, you get really good performance if you pair the AMD CPU with an NVidia card not as good as the 8700k though but really good performance in the lines of single and low threaded core speed differences which still is around 10-15%. I mean 54fps in Hateno in 4k in a CPU bound scenario is really good, the 8700k probably in the same config would be around 60fps in that scene. But even before on an NVidia 1070 in an older Cemu versions I was hitting 34-40fps being fully gpu bound in 4k (and the processor being about 60-70% taxed out and my older 1700 was hitting close to 95% back then)

    I am rather confident the situation on your side will be resolved once the CEMU people have their Vulcan port ready.

    Btw. the long history of problematic drivers on the AMD Radeon side is the reason why I am still on NVidia, although their shady price gouging really makes me considering AMD again. For the time being there is no real alternative once you move into the upper range. I hope AMD will get its act together like they did on the processor side. But I guess it is a harder job to make the Radeon driver group working well again as their processor division which always did a good job, they just most of the times were restricted by the subpar manufacturing output of GloFo. This problem is finally resolved AMD is no longer bound to GloFo.

    Not having a Radeon card, I cannot give your test scenario a shot. Sorry.
    Last edited by werpu; 06.11.2018 at 07:53.

  7. #7
    Super-Moderator
    Join Date
    13.09.2017
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by da04lo View Post
    Hello,

    What is the performance difference on CEMU (with games such as BOTW or Wind Waker) between a Ryzen 7 2700x vs an i7 8700k? I know the i7 8700k performs better, but I would like to get a rough idea of how much better, for example percentage-wise with respect to frame rate.

    I am building a new system that will be primarily used for gaming (modern games, older games, and emulation), and I am trying to decide between the Ryzen 7 2700x and the i7 8700k (or the upcoming 9th gen refresh). I will be pairing it with a 1080 ti. The displays are a 3440x1440 @120 Hz monitor and a 4k TV.

    I would greatly appreciate your feedback and related personal experiences!
    Ryzen cpu's are absolute beasts at cemu. Yes you are correct the 8700k will be better but here is a screenshot of my performance on a 1700x at stock clocks with an r9 fury.
    https://i.imgur.com/uH3JNEn.png
    This is on linux so windows performance with an amd gpu will be substantially worse to the tune of 25 fps on average. But Windows performance with an nvidia gpu will be better. And yes I have tested with a gtx 1070. Since you already plan on getting the 1080ti then I fully recommend the ryzen cpu. It's a great cpu on a great platform that should get you at least one more significant cpu upgrade with zen 2 next year and possibly another revision after that.

    If you have a change of heart and want to get an amd gpu then I would only recommend getting an intel cpu to overcome amd's terrible open gl performance. Assuming windows that is.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	uH3JNEn.png 
Views:	17 
Size:	1,32 MB 
ID:	497  
    Last edited by Xalphenos; 06.11.2018 at 16:49.

  8. #8
    New user
    Join Date
    13.11.2017
    Posts
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by Xalphenos View Post
    If you have a change of heart and want to get an amd gpu then I would only recommend getting an intel cpu to overcome amd's terrible open gl performance. Assuming windows that is.
    I have my doubts that an Intel CPU will help out here that much. The best bet for Windows if you wanna go the AMD route is to pair a Ryzen, which indeed is a beast, with an NVidia card.
    Btw. Nice performance you have here.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •